SMS scnews item created by Paul Szabo at Fri 27 Sep 2013 1910
Type: Other
Modified: Sun 29 Sep 2013 0716; Mon 30 Sep 2013 0851; Wed 2 Oct 2013 1755
Distribution: World
Auth: psz@c122-106-85-190.randw3.nsw.optusnet.com.au in SMS-auth
Dean on wages
See also email exchange below.
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At the Maths "School Board" meeting on 24 Sep, Trevor Hambley the Dean
of Science said that our (USyd) staff wage costs were 58% of income,
whereas Go8 average was 52%.
The wages/income ratio is not an "official" Go8 indicator:
http://www.go8.edu.au/__documents/about-go8/go8_indicators_final2013.pdf
Looking up the data:
$M $M $M % %
Wages Revenue Income Wage/Rvnu Wage/Incm
ANU 502 981 995 51.2 50.5
Monash 894 ? 1634 ? 54.7
Adelaide 405 ? 790 ? 51.3
Melbourne 922 1787 1847 51.6 49.9
UNSW 792 1463 1479 54.1 53.5
USyd 943 1601 1737 58.9 <<< 54.3
Queensland 843 1551 1583 54.4 53.3
UWA 509 875 916 58.2 55.6
Average (weighted) 54.6 52.9 <<<
It would seem that the Dean was comparing apples with oranges.
Sources:
http://about.anu.edu.au/__documents/annual-reports/annual_report_2012.pdf#93
http://www.monash.edu.au/pubs/ar/annual-report-2012.pdf#48
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/publications/pdfs/a-report-12.pdf#67
http://www.unimelb.edu.au/publications/docs/2012-financial-statement.pdf#3
http://www.fin.unsw.edu.au/files/cfoann/UNSW_2012_Financial_Report.pdf#12
http://sydney.edu.au/about/publications/annual_report/2012/annual_report_2012_volume_1.pdf#82
http://www.uq.edu.au/about/docs/annualreport/annual-report12/UQ-Annual-Financial-Statements-2012.pdf#4
http://year2012.annualreport.publishing.uwa.edu.au/welcome/disclosures_and_legal_compliance/financial_statements?f=306330#2
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Record of email exchange, below.
Is my perception of reality distorted in some way?
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From psz Tue Sep 24 20:30:03 2013
To: dean.science@sydney.edu.au
Subject: Staff wage cost USyd 58%, Go8 52%
Dear Trevor,
At the Maths "School Board" meeting today, you said that our (USyd)
staff wage costs were 58% of income, whereas Go8 average was 52%.
Looking at our and UNSW annual reports
http://sydney.edu.au/about/publications/annual_report/2012/annual_report_2012_volume_1.pdf#82
http://www.fin.unsw.edu.au/files/cfoann/UNSW_2012_Financial_Report.pdf#12
seems that our costs are 58% as you said, and UNSW is 54%. Would you
have data about other Go8 universities? The 52% you mentioned seems too
low; or would USyd and UNSW be so much higher than most others?
Thanks, Paul
-----
From dean.science@sydney.edu.au Tue Sep 24 22:17:46 2013
To: Paul Szabo <paul.szabo@sydney.edu.au>
Subject: RE: Staff wage cost USyd 58%, Go8 52%
Hi Paul,
I would expect UNSW is next highest since their salaries are close to
ours, though it depends on number of staff as well as salaries.
Melbourne Level E is $162 K (at the same time as our last pay rise and
now offering 2.5% pa I believe) Monash $156 K (similar timing), UQ $155
K from Jan 1 this year, Adelaide went to $159 K on the same date, and
UWA went to $166 K two weeks ago.
It is much more difficult to compare professional and general staff
salaries because the levels have different meanings.
Regards,
Trevor
TREVOR HAMBLEY FAA | Dean of Science
Faculty of Science
-----
From psz Wed Sep 25 07:01:54 2013
To: dean.science@sydney.edu.au
Subject: RE: Staff wage cost USyd 58%, Go8 52%
Dear Trevor,
Thanks for that reply... but that seems to answer some entirely
different question!
Your data is somewhat wrong: Melbourne LevelE is now $165922.
---
Related to your reply: how many LevelE do we, and other Universities
have? I believe you once said we have half.
---
At the meeting, you said that the last EBA was negotiated when the
effects of the GFC were not yet known. That seems to be all wrong: the
GFC started in 2007, its effect on our finances were evident in 2008,
and the last EBA was at the end of 2009. Could you please explain.
Apologies for the many questions.
Thanks, Paul
-----
From dean.science@sydney.edu.au Wed Sep 25 09:18:35 2013
To: Paul Szabo <paul.szabo@sydney.edu.au>
Subject: RE: Staff wage cost USyd 58%, Go8 52%
Hi Paul,
I was using the Level E salary as a proxy for the positioning of the
salary scales in each of the universities to show that most of the other
Go8s have substantially lower levels than ours and therefore are likely
to be spending a lower proportion of their income on salaries.
I don’t know the proportion of Level E relevant to this issue - it is
quite difficult to extract because many of our level E staff are on
partly or fully funded research contracts. However, I believe that among
T&R staff, the proportion in most schools is now substantially below
50%.
The largest (by far) impact on our finances was international student
numbers which peaked in 2009 and dropped from then on. Most but not all
of this was GFC related and second order consequences such as the entry
of the US universities into the market in new ways - which has impacted
particularly badly on Science.
Regards,
Trevor
TREVOR HAMBLEY FAA | Dean of Science
Faculty of Science
-----
From psz Wed Sep 25 09:44:49 2013
To: dean.science@sydney.edu.au
Subject: RE: Staff wage cost USyd 58%, Go8 52%
Dear Trevor,
Thanks for your further reply.
You had mentioned specific ratios of wages/income. Could you please
explain where those figures came from? Were they only a figure of
speech?
---
You also wrote:
> The largest (by far) impact on our finances was international student
> numbers which peaked in 2009 and dropped from then on. Most but not all
> of this was GFC related ...
Do you mean to say that the GFC itself is a "red herring", that the
deficit reported in 2008 is not of the essence?
Thanks, Paul
-----
From psz Fri Sep 27 19:00:26 2013
To: dean.science@sydney.edu.au
Subject: RE: Staff wage cost USyd 58%, Go8 52%
Dear Trevor,
You do not seem to have replied to my questions.
I looked up the data for wages/income ratios for the Go8 universities,
results below. It seems that the figures you mentioned, are in fact
unrelated and should not be compared.
Could you please also reply to the question of relevance of any deficit
reported.
Thanks, Paul
---
The wages/income ratio is not an "official" Go8 indicator:
http://www.go8.edu.au/__documents/about-go8/go8_indicators_final2013.pdf
$M $M $M % %
Wages Revenue Income Wage/Rvnu Wage/Incm
ANU 502 981 995 51.2 50.5
Monash 894 ? 1634 ? 54.7
Adelaide 405 ? 790 ? 51.3
Melbourne 922 1787 1847 51.6 49.9
UNSW 792 1463 1479 54.1 53.5
USyd 943 1601 1737 58.9 <<< 54.3
Queensland 843 1551 1583 54.4 53.3
UWA 509 875 916 58.2 55.6
Average (weighted) 54.6 52.9 <<<
It would seem that the Dean was comparing apples with oranges.
Sources:
http://about.anu.edu.au/__documents/annual-reports/annual_report_2012.pdf#93
http://www.monash.edu.au/pubs/ar/annual-report-2012.pdf#48
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/publications/pdfs/a-report-12.pdf#67
http://www.unimelb.edu.au/publications/docs/2012-financial-statement.pdf#3
http://www.fin.unsw.edu.au/files/cfoann/UNSW_2012_Financial_Report.pdf#12
http://sydney.edu.au/about/publications/annual_report/2012/annual_report_2012_volume_1.pdf#82
http://www.uq.edu.au/about/docs/annualreport/annual-report12/UQ-Annual-Financial-Statements-2012.pdf#4
http://year2012.annualreport.publishing.uwa.edu.au/welcome/disclosures_and_legal_compliance/financial_statements?f=306330#2
-----
From psz Sun Sep 29 06:52:15 2013
To: dean.science@sydney.edu.au
Subject: RE: Staff wage cost USyd 58%, Go8 52%
Dear Trevor,
You wrote:
> ...
> The largest (by far) impact on our finances was international student
> numbers which peaked in 2009 and dropped from then on. ...
Looking at the data below, I cannot see the trend you mention. Could
you please explain.
Thanks, Paul
---
International enrolments
--------- Science --------- --------- AllUni ---------
Year PGRes PGCwk UG Tot PGRes PGCwk UG Tot
2008 93 182 381 656 590 4326 5001 9917
2009 125 97 424 646 678 4498 5305 10481
2010 147 104 502 753 757 4254 5821 10832
2011 151 101 548 800 778 3807 6059 10644
2012 135 85 530 750 799 3449 5844 10092
2013 125 78 481 684 799 4031 5758 10588
Sources:
http://sydney.edu.au/staff/planning/statistics/enrol/intnl_fac.php
http://sydney.edu.au/staff/planning/statistics/enrol/intnl_fac.php?yr=2012
-----
dean.science@sydney.edu.au Mon Sep 30 08:04:52 2013
To: Paul Szabo <paul.szabo@sydney.edu.au>
Subject: RE: Staff wage cost USyd 58%, Go8 52%
Dear Paul,
It is certainly not the case that I was selectively using data in the
way you have suggested, and indeed, I did not extract them myself.
The wages/income ratio is not the most appropriate since income
evidently includes donations, capital grants, etc.
The wages/revenue data (USyd 58.9, average 54.6) are not greatly
different to the data I quoted, particularly given that two of the three
lowest paying Go8s (using my albeit crude proxy) are not included in
your average. Also, I am not sure whether the numbers I quoted come from
the same data sets as you have sourced.
I don’t understand your question regarding the 2008 deficit - I don’t
recollect referring to the deficit that year.
Regards,
Trevor
TREVOR HAMBLEY FAA | Dean of Science
Faculty of Science
-----
psz Mon Sep 30 08:28:50 2013
To: dean.science@sydney.edu.au
Subject: RE: Staff wage cost USyd 58%, Go8 52%
Dear Trevor,
Could you please find out where the figures you quoted came from?
Your figures seem wrong.
The question about deficit relates to the following exchange:
>>>> At the meeting, you said that the last EBA was negotiated when the
>>>> effects of the GFC were not yet known. That seems to be all wrong: the
>>>> GFC started in 2007, its effect on our finances were evident in 2008,
>>>> and the last EBA was at the end of 2009. Could you please explain.
>>>
>>> The largest (by far) impact on our finances was international student
>>> numbers which peaked in 2009 and dropped from then on. Most but not all
>>> of this was GFC related and second order consequences such as the entry
>>> of the US universities into the market in new ways - which has impacted
>>> particularly badly on Science.
>>
>> Do you mean to say that the GFC itself is a "red herring", that the
>> deficit reported in 2008 is not of the essence?
Thanks, Paul
-----
dean.science@sydney.edu.au Mon Sep 30 08:07:28 2013
To: Paul Szabo <paul.szabo@sydney.edu.au>
Subject: RE: Staff wage cost USyd 58%, Go8 52%
Dear Paul,
I was referring to new international enrolments since the point under
discussion was when did this impact of the GFC first become evident. The
numbers you have sourced are total enrolments which lag the time of
first impact because of pipeline effects.
This lag effect is greater for Science because a higher proportion of
our international students are enrolled in 3-4 year UG programs vs 1-2
year PGCwk programs than the University average.
Regards,
Trevor
TREVOR HAMBLEY FAA | Dean of Science
Faculty of Science
-----
psz Mon Sep 30 08:41:58 2013
To: dean.science@sydney.edu.au
Subject: RE: Staff wage cost USyd 58%, Go8 52%
Dear Trevor,
Could you please provide (or point me to) data for new enrolments
and completions or terminations?
I understood that students pay a yearly (or per-semester) fee,
generating ongoing income while enrolled. Is not that so?
Thanks, Paul
-----
From psz Tue Oct 1 12:43:50 2013
To: dean.science@sydney.edu.au
Subject: RE: Staff wage cost USyd 58%, Go8 52%
Dear Trevor,
Thank you again for the chat today. Following up:
---
Our executives get paid a lot more than UNSW, seems unlikely that USyd
executive pay would be 75% of "industry average". Would you please be
able to find that average: without it the statement is vacuous.
http://sydney.edu.au/about/publications/annual_report/2012/annual_report_2012_volume_1.pdf#48
Remuneration Bonus
Spence VC 744143 155000
Garton Provost 540799 83200
Armstrong Education 456300 39000
Hearn International 523106 44051
Trewhella Research 456300 70200
Brewer Strategic 443728 60681
Houston Indigenous 400000 50000
http://www.fin.unsw.edu.au/files/cfoann/UNSW_2012_Financial_Report.pdf#104
Base Super Bonus
Hilmer VC 884057 27501 N/A
Henry Academic 391885 59001 N/A (1Jan-4Nov)
Martin Academic 86411 7777 N/A (15Oct-31Dec)
Field Research 378874 62159 84347
Blakeman Finance&Ops 386699 68334 86528
Morris Services 304513 36762 64896
---
The VC wrote:
http://sydney.edu.au/news/staff/2576.html?newscategoryid=222&newsstoryid=11738
The percentage of casual academic staff at Sydney [was] 19.9 percent
last year, and casual academics make up no more than five percent of
the total academic staffing of any faculty.
Can you explain or re-phrase that so it makes sense?
The Provost wrote:
http://sydney.edu.au/news/84.html?newscategoryid=11&newsstoryid=12185
... proportion of casual academics ... [is] 19.9 percent. The
proportion of well-trained casual staff seeking a continuing academic
position constitute less than 5 percent of our academic staff.
Does that say that 75% of casuals are untrained?
---
Thanks, for helping me restore faith in management.
-----
From psz Wed Oct 2 13:50:44 2013
To: dean.science@sydney.edu.au
Subject: RE: Staff wage cost USyd 58%, Go8 52%
Dear Trevor,
>>> ... international student numbers peaked in 2009 and dropped from
>>> then on. ...
>> Looking at [total enrolment] data below, I cannot see the trend you
>> mention. Could you please explain.
>
> I was referring to new international enrolments ...
The best I could locate so far was data for "all Australia", see below.
That still does not show the trend you mention.
Could you please provide data for USyd.
And anyway, do not students pay a yearly fee, generating ongoing income
during their enrolment?
Thanks, Paul
---
Higher Education international student commencements:
Year Number
2007 72603
2008 78070
2009 89435
2010 102538
2011 96526
2012 89326
Sources:
https://aei.gov.au/research/International-Student-Data/Pages/InternationalStudentData2007.aspx
https://aei.gov.au/research/International-Student-Data/Pages/InternationalStudentData2008.aspx
https://aei.gov.au/research/International-Student-Data/Pages/InternationalStudentData2009.aspx
https://aei.gov.au/research/International-Student-Data/Documents/INTERNATIONAL%20STUDENT%20DATA/2010/2010Dec_0712.pdf
https://aei.gov.au/research/International-Student-Data/Documents/INTERNATIONAL%20STUDENT%20DATA/2011/2011Dec_0712.pdf
https://aei.gov.au/research/International-Student-Data/Documents/INTERNATIONAL%20STUDENT%20DATA/2012/2012Dec_0712.pdf
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